The New New Business: Karen James’ Jigsaw of Selling
Karen James is a partner at directors’ agent Johnny Foreigner. Prior to that she was head of sales and marketing at CHIEF. In her career she has variously been an agency account handler and a client. A massive Francophile and fashion obsessive, when she’s not working she likes planning the next trip to France and playing tennis.
LBB> What was your first sale or new business win?
Karen> Early on in my career when I was at McCann-Erickson Manchester I was asked to join the pitch team on a bank pitch. It was my second week and I could barely even find my way back to my desk, but I remember channelling the internal terror and being as smiley, cheerful and supportive of the work being presented as I could. We won the business, with the legendary Sue Little at the helm and it became the most profitable account in the agency during my tenure there.
LBB> What was the best piece of advice you got early on?
Karen> Always follow everything up and then follow up again.
LBB> And the worst?
Karen> I can’t recall any bad advice, maybe I’ve been lucky to work with mainly sound people. Where I think I do come a cropper sometimes is from being too trusting. If someone makes me a promise I believe the paperwork will follow. It doesn’t always… you should wait for the paperwork.
LBB> How has the business of ‘selling’ in the creative industry changed since you started?
Karen> I’ll say! Even just a few years ago if you had the balls to ring people and knew what you were talking about you could tease business in. Now I think it’s far more complicated. Like a big jigsaw and all the pieces need to be in place. PR, social media, networking, events, email, newsletters and the odd phone call here and there if you’re lucky enough to have a number to call. Remote working makes the cold call a rare and wonderful thing.
LBB> Can anyone be taught to sell or do new business or do you think it suits a certain kind of personality?
Karen> I went to a new business event a few years ago and the BD from a big agency network said that successful new business people all walk very fast. My family always have a go at me for speed-walking when we are supposed to be ambling through the countryside so make of that what you will. Seriously though, I think ‘shiny-suited sales people’ don’t really work in creative industries. You know the sort of ‘Apprentice’ types. You’re selling ideas, aesthetics, talent and I think it helps if you are creative yourself and passionate about these things. As a director’s agent right now I love talking about the incredible talent that I represent. It feels like a privilege. I couldn’t be happier than when I’ve just helped secure a really nice project for a director. You should see how excited I get when a really good script comes in, it’s embarrassing.
LBB> What are your thoughts about the process of pitching that the industry largely runs on?
Karen> Ahhh that chestnut. I don’t think it will ever go away. It's hard-wired into the industry. Some people are almost addicted to the adrenalin of it all. I mean it is gambling isn’t it really? After being in the industry for a million years, personally I love a single bid! On the film side of things it’s usually a three-way pitch so you know your chances. I try to manage expectations by asking the big questions up front. From conversations I’ve had recently there seems to be more self-awareness in the pitching arena and that must be a good direction of travel. It can be a mental health/burnout minefield, so giving a sh*t about how you are treating pitchers is important. You have to remind yourself that often these things are cyclical so when you’re on a winning streak make the most of it and enjoy it while it lasts.
LBB> How do you go about tailoring your selling approach according to the kind of person or business you’re approaching?
Karen> You need to do your research of course, look at where a business is at what they are doing now and how your offer is relevant. I tend to just be myself and use my personality when I make an approach. I don’t always get it right but if you try to create some kind of salesy persona it’s going to be naff and cheesy. If you’re too corporate it’s going to be yawny.
LBB> New business and sales can often mean hearing ‘no’ a lot and quite a bit of rejection - how do you keep motivated?
Karen> Ah well people are really nice these days. Very rarely do I get told to go away. It's more likely that you get ignored or ghosted. That’s not so bad. On the very rare occasion that someone is rude or mean I just think to myself “Ah well I wouldn’t want to work with you if you are that kind of person and you probably won’t last long, so good luck and all that”.
LBB> The advertising and marketing industry often blurs the line between personal and professional friendships and relationships… does this make selling easier or more difficult and delicate?
Karen> Tell me about it… I met my husband at McCann’s and my closest friends. I try to get on with everyone but some people you click with whether it’s colleagues, crew, suppliers, journos or clients and if you can have a relationship which is matey and professional that just makes life fun and collaborative so that’s all to the good.
LBB> In your view what’s the key to closing a deal?
Karen> Listening. You need to understand what people want and then get them to want what you have.
LBB> How is technology and new platforms changing sales and new business?
Karen> I think LinkedIn is very helpful and social media in general. I like IG and Twitter but I’d never use Salesforce or Hubspot, I can count on five hands the people we want to work with, plus using something like that would make me feel like a proper salesperson and that’s not my vibe.
LBB> What’s your advice for anyone who’s not necessarily come up as a salesperson who’s now expected to sell or win new business as part of their role?
Karen> I’d say be focused on who you really want to win business from – have a list of 10-20. I write them on a whiteboard and I can guarantee the minute I give up on one and scrub their name off they send me a brief.
